×/ㄨ/メ

sorry again for writing in english..

so, i've been wondering that, should the shape of X should be split into 2 standard, or it's just about style (no business with "standard"). also i'd like to hear from Japanese user (who i think the current glyphwiki is mainly used by), how would you regard this difference in style.

this involves many characters, 区 (both simplified in j and g), 冈赵风卤 (simplified only in g), 凶希肴囟 etc. (not simplified but IN both standard), 网 (simplified in g and registered in j source, but idk if it's often used).

it seems that in japanese style, crosses looks more like メ, where the 丿 is obviously longer. but this looks somehow strange or ugly (sorry) in most Chinese users' view. while Chinese people prefer the more balanced design.

for 区 凶, they're split into g/j but mainly because of 匚 凵's detail.

u533a u533a-g u51f6 u51f6-g

i have tuned the X in g version of them so that it looks better by chinese.

edit: sorry i forgot the most used (as for simplified chinese reader) example, also the g variant was created by me. in my eyes, this is the most ridiculous one among j-styled X's.

u7f51 u7f51-g

but 希 肴 are not split. here's the problem. i did the following changes several months ago.

u5e0c@3 → u5e0c@4, u80b4@1 → u80b4@2

surprisingly, none of glyphwiki users tried to revert, split or discuss about them. i wrote "(is the skewed メ standard, or looks good by Japanese reader...? should this one be separated..." as comment on this change, but it seems nobody is interested. i wonder, is this accepted by japanese users? or looks a bit worse, but it worth too little to change it back? or any of you even thought it looks really better? furthermore, how do you think of reverting, keeping them this way, picking an average of them, splitting j/g, or other solutions?

reference: 如何描述市场上很多常见的黑体字型产品的各自的气质、特征？ - 郭毓海的回答 (冬青黑体：Hiragino Sans GB, which is GB localized version based on japanese font Hiragino Kaku Gothic), the X in 风 remains japanese style, just looks strange (see 惠风和畅 example in other chinese fonts). while most of other characters, the whole 冬青黑体 font (both japanese and GB version), are considered beautiful and outstanding by chinese designers and users.

• mooore about「冬青黑体」: Meiryo vs 冬青黑体 vs 微软雅黑 sorted according to my favor towards the 冬青黑体 line (like -> dislike). in fact, all except the last 3 or 5 of 冬青黑体 are acceptable to me. as one of the problems with 风, メ being a bit low, also applies to the content of 门 frame, as mentioned in the answer. a big wave of 风 . farter 2016年2月2日(火) 23:50

farter 2016年1月8日(金) 18:18

• 路過港人表示認同... 分開比較好吧? hkcs 23:49, 8 January 2016
• 主要就是，这么久都没出现一位日本人民发表看法或者动手改，赞同也好反对也好，啥都没，我表示不知所措…… farter 2016年1月9日(土) 22:50
• I like China's style better. I think that separating -g and -j is not a bad idea, unless Japanese users also think that u5e0c@4 and u80b4@2 are better. umbreon126 2016年1月9日(土) 03:34

• 私の主観では、形が正方形の場合は×、横長になった場合はメ、のような気がします。ですので、区別ではなくスタイル（デザイン）かと思います。ですが、もう少し時間を下さい。明日、自分の意見を出します。--kamichi 2016年1月9日(土) 23:56
• umm,見慣れているかどうかの主観かも知れません…u5e0c@3が見慣れていて、しかしu80b4@2が見慣れている気がします（u80b4@1はちょっと左に重心がよりすぎている？）。あまり長い時間見すぎてゲシュタルト崩壊状態になりました。--kamichi 2016年1月10日(日) 00:01
• 分けたいと考える人がいるならば、「-j」と「-g」で分けることに私も賛成です。全然関係ないですが、最近台湾香港デザイン（MingLiU)や中国大陸デザイン（SimSun)のフォントを日本語のポスターなどのデザインで使っていて、でもあまり誰も文句を言わない、そんな状況が多くなっている気がします。Windowsでフォントとして選べるので使ってしまう、そんな感じです--kamichi 2016年1月10日(日) 00:07

• another reference: http://i.imgur.com/7AER3G9.png
• ↑looks somehow indeterminable...
but generally chinese fonts (microsoft yahei, simsun, microsoft jhenghei, mingliu) use balanced X (that 肴 is strange though). the most strange one in my eyes is 爻 of MS Mincho and MS Gothic. also, Noto Sans CJK (Source Han Sans) seems to keep unified X on 希 肴 (acceptable by me) but has 区 凶 separated with different box and X... what's more interesting, four 爻's in Noto Sans are identical, but 駁's are different. _(:3J L)_ farter 2016年1月11日(月) 13:39
• (Made it easier to tell the difference ) umbreon126 2016年1月11日(月) 16:17
• all the top 3 lines displays microsoft yahei on my computer... well noto sans series are just provided as a reference on "how modern/new implementation regards this difference", while older implementations like simsun/simhei/mingliu/msmincho/msgothic/msyahei/msjhenghei/meiryo... may be better for comparison because users are more familiar with these fonts, and they were individually developed, provided as most basic / fallback font in windows.

• btw, long ones and wide ones "differ in different ways". →sandbox@2407

--

中国人にとってu5e0c@3・u80b4@1よりu5e0c@4・u80b4@2の方が綺麗です。だからデザインを地域で区別をつけるべきかどうか議論されています。日本では「メ」の左払いが長い方は普通ですが、中国では正方形のデザインが普通です。

• u5e0c@4・u80b4@2をu5e0c@3・u80b4@1に戻った方はどうですか？
• 中国デザインと日本デザインの妥協で「メ」をデザインするのはどうですか？
• u5e0c-g・u5e0c-gとu80b4-j・u80b4-jで区別するのはどうですか？

• https://www.zhihu.com/question/37392957/answer/71879587 　←「冬青黑体」は「ヒラギノ」の中国大陸版ですが、「风」のデザインは日本風のでおかしいと思われます。